1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

For Type 3 and 4 restoration projects, interesting history, adventure trips etc
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sparkywig
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by sparkywig » 30th July 2019 - 12:28pm

That's an improvement.

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 10th August 2019 - 6:24pm

Yeah made a bit of progress. Its a bit wibbly wobbly as im using fingers, but the inch deep scratches have gone. Never been a show winner but as long as it looks respectable then ill do me. Ive got a little update to come :)
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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 21st August 2019 - 8:34pm

Lets see if we can produce something cohearent then. Ive been using the car rather than working on it. But I have taken it for a 4 wheel alignment. Its safe to say I wasnt ever going to get anywhere on my own.

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So thats the before an after, ignore the limits on the diagram. They didnt have my car preprogrammed and I took my specs with me. So the lasers we simply used to get a reading. It was all over the show before. Now im left with the front end is well inside spec and the ball joints are set up correctly.

The rear remains the issue. I have to drive with some RH down on. And looking at my readings there, the OSR is at full adjustment. and needs to read about 2.5 dgrees toe in (+2.5). So at -0.15 its pointing the wrong way.

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I spent quite some some reading up about adjustment and set up. But the car is by the book. So that left me to look at the car. Wheel off and using a reasonably straigh edge. Im not sure how reliable this is as a datum, but.

OS

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NS

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As you can see the OS has a gap between the rule and the seam. If the seam is reliable it is suggesting that the arm is bent. This kind of bend would be consistant with the alignment issue I have with that wheel. Ive got a spare arm which ill be digging out this weekend for some measuring. But What do we all think?

In the mean time, ive had a weekend at skegvegas and got two little gems.

A dipable rear view mirror in just about mint condition, which will save me having my tired one resilvered. This was £20

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And this 1/4in over size diameter 4 into one header that has never been used and the bloke let me mug him for £15

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Enjoyable nonsence
The sultan of swing

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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 21st August 2019 - 9:32pm

Some quick thoughts:

Yes if trailing arm is bent then you will have alignment problems. Of course, the only way you will know is by putting another one on and setting all the suspension up again on that corner

Can you post the specs you are aiming for ........ 2.5 degrees toe in at the rear is so wrong, 2.5 to 5 minutes each side is what i would expect and you have more than that.

Camber is the first adjustment to get near...... toe follows, though they do of course interact with each other unless you are on modern multilink suspension

I am a bit sceptical about camber readings being precisely 1.00 degrees, spurious degrees of false accuracy in my book, but if it makes the customer happy........

Have you measured diagonals on the chassis, just to make sure that is straight ?

You now properly understand how important rear suspension setup is to car handling, especially rear engined motors :D :thumbsup:
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 21st August 2019 - 9:47pm

So we may have a typo on the Bentley manual. I did question 5 degrees toe in when we were setting I up. In the rear axel chp. Youre looking at Type 3 sedan double jointed axel. That says +5 degrees, no ifs buts or coconuts. Agree?

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I had noticed a mention of rear wheel specs in the front axel section but never gave them a second look until you questioned the 2.5 degrees.

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5 minutes me reads. Someone at bentleys got fat fingers.

None the less, it still leaves me out of spec. But its a start!
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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 21st August 2019 - 10:13pm

Hah, I have found errors in Bentley piston to barrel clearances on the T25 too. Mr Haynes was more accurate.

On the rear wheel toe, your reading of the manual is correct, but it's utter b*()!£ks

The second photo shows 5 minutes + /- 15 minutes, that's more like it, but before getting carried away with the numbers you need to confirm that a positive number is toe in (or otherwise) and that the setting is the total across the axle. I expect it is, but as people started doing toe in by milimetres, they started to describe it as mm per wheel.

If you have an old set of Dunlop gauges to hand there's a handy ready reckoner to convert degrees and minutes to millimetres. Yep, that's what that wierd round rotating disc you never looked at does. OK, I'll admit it, I also did the maths to confirm if ready reckoner was total or per side.

Double Pi and custard for me that day

You can have a read here too https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=676136 ignore the misinformation and listen to raygreenwood

You could do with some more rear camber on the left too, nowt wrong with a bit of extra camber ;)
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 22nd August 2019 - 10:02pm

Ill check the 3 other brands of manual ive got for the car and see what they all come up with.

Its definitely the total in this one. They do break it down in other parts. So I will start with working to 5 minutes total.

I feels weve walked this path before. Ive got the old version on the old Dunlop gauges. No dial on mine. So I cant be guilty of not using/understanding it :)

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I shall have a read of the link over the weekend. Camber isn't directly adjustable on these, its just a bi products of spring plate angle. Its only really toe that's adjustable, though obviously camber will fluctuate as a result. Anyway we will shall see if Ive got a bent bit before I waste any more time
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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 22nd August 2019 - 10:20pm

They are older than mine :)

... which are this design, but look almost as weathered as yours

.......... and don't forget because you turn the gauges round when doing the rear, toe in is measured as toe out on the scale, it's easy to forget

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David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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muddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by muddy » 27th August 2019 - 7:27am

Interesting read on the alignment. Something I'm hoping to do soon too.
1971 VW Type 3 1600 TE Fastback. Body off Resto completed, now just bits and pieces and niff naff to do.
Volksworld Magazine featured car 2013
Instagram: @type3.fastback

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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 15th September 2019 - 8:34am

I see Casa de Fye has been doing wheel alignment on his squareback, and it transformed the handling, which reminded me of this thread.

Have you had chance to source a replacement arm and fit it yet ?

Best bit of the job will be the absence of any rusty bolts :) :)
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 15th September 2019 - 7:31pm

Luckily no sourcing was required, I had a spare burried in my dads garage, it was just a case of digging it out. Anyway I got it out stripped it down and had it blasted. It showed a few thin areas which I got round to repairing last night. Ive put a stright edge on it the seam and its strighter than the one fitted. I dont know if this really means anything. But ive got the bump stop mount to repair and a wheel bearing kit on order. Then I will get on with swapping it over. In the mean time ive been rather busy recovering the garden and a rather big job of relaying the rotten decking. And made a start on rebuild a Rolls Royce V8, oh and a few little jobs on the 944 including a USB charging port. Ive not been idle, and ive got an update coming.

One more thing ive also spent ages titing about with wheels, I had 9 stock buggers and it was hard to get 4 matching wheels from the lot!
The sultan of swing

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 30th September 2019 - 8:50pm

Here we are then, with my spare arm blasted I laid a few coats of paint on while i found the time to repair it.

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So repair the bump stop I used a hole saw to cut the thin out and then cut the same hole in some good metal, the coupon was welded in and an M10 bolt welded on with a penny washed locked at the right height to fit the bump stop rubber over.

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Another issue I wanted to sort while I was under there is to sort out my suspension knock. This was down to beetle shocks being fitted, the bottom bush was too short, so I turned some new ones and pressed them in.

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So with both of these trimmed up to fit in the bottom on the trailing arm I stipped the old arm off the car and I started to build it up.

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New bearings and seals ect installed.

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I pushed the trailing arm all the way forward, and tightened it all up. This evening I finally managed to get out for a quick drive before the weather hit. I am pleased to report it is much improved, it follows the crown of the road rather nicely so ill take it for a wheel alignment on friday and just get it all double checked. But it seems to behave its self under accerleration and cursing. And the shocks dont knock either!

Other news to come, but thats the big one hit
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Aaronslimvw
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by Aaronslimvw » 30th September 2019 - 11:08pm

Yess! Glad you sorted it!

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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 30th September 2019 - 11:27pm

I'm glad you got that done and the car feels better.

:)

Unless you are on a free retest arrangement I would use your own gauges to read where you are first. You know the left hand toe, so you can get right hand by measuring total again. You can do camber with a plumb line, a steel rule and a bit of maths.
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 1st October 2019 - 9:35pm

I have exactly that arrangement, tame local folks and i simplay cannot be arsed with setting up the gear again. I want to get on with the job list. Bits of carpet to fit, wheels to paint, body to colour sand and endless other details. Along with the silly turbo engine.
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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 1st October 2019 - 9:43pm

broady_6 wrote:
1st October 2019 - 9:35pm
Along with the silly turbo engine.
......and whose idea was that then :lol:
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 1st October 2019 - 9:45pm

and you just got my 1000th post :)
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 10th November 2019 - 10:11am

I am honoured!

A long time since I shared anything with you lot. I have since returned for a wheel alignment and its now running bang on.

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After a couple of minor adjustments to correct the install of the new trailing arm, i was much happier driving home. Its still wasnt perfect though. In the straight a head position it was a bit twitchy and could end up pulling in either direction. But while on the alignment ramp id noticed a weep from the steering damper. So i replaced this with a new non leaky one and it has sorted the nuteral steer twitches. That's that battle over with!

In between other jobs I been working on my alturnate wheels, first job was away to the blasters. I then spent some time knocking the dings out of the lips and filing any rough edges as best I could.

WIth a coat of etch and then a couple of primer coats, rubbing down with 600g between coats.

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The next job was to choose the colour.

First of all I went for the subaru impreza gold. But it was just too flat and light for me.

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After some more research I found a couple more to try.

Ignore the runs in the paint! This was also too light for my taste.

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But as they say, third time lucky, this one was just what im after.

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So I got on with the job of painting. Three colour two clear.

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The sultan of swing

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937carrera
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by 937carrera » 10th November 2019 - 12:01pm

OK, I'll say it, they look very "bling", are you sure ??

Back on the suspension, I'm glad you got it sorted. The 4 wheel setup arrangement looks less sophisticated that I expected. I assume it's drive on and measure, rather than drive on and adjust in place which is what was in my mind. Same end result, but a bit more time consuming I expect.
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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vwfye
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by vwfye » 10th November 2019 - 5:43pm

Wonderful choice of wheel!
64 No'back Speedster
Little Giant Killer III
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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 10th November 2019 - 9:40pm

I am very sure. I couldn't decide if I should add some black detail or not. So got some clear coat on before I had time to confuse myself.

Just a normal hawk eye laser alignment system. Drive on measure and adjust. It gives live reading so you can see the adjustments you're making.
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jmarkha1
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by jmarkha1 » 11th November 2019 - 2:00pm

nice wheel choice for the car - I reckon with black bolts and caps they'll look the part - you can always add satin black inserts if they look "too much" -
The variant Project

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muddy
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by muddy » 12th November 2019 - 11:44am

:thumbsup: Looking good
1971 VW Type 3 1600 TE Fastback. Body off Resto completed, now just bits and pieces and niff naff to do.
Volksworld Magazine featured car 2013
Instagram: @type3.fastback

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broady_6
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by broady_6 » 12th November 2019 - 8:42pm

i hadnt thought about black caps! Very good idea. I expect they will see some rubber before the week is out. Then I shall have a play about. They havnt ever been in very good condition when they were on the car. So its all new to me :)
The sultan of swing

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sparkywig
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Re: 1971 VW Type 3 Fastback

Post by sparkywig » 13th November 2019 - 5:18pm

I've got a load of black nut caps from when I changed the wheels on my T6, if you want to try some.

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