Brake parts for a 412

[adi #2]

Ok, so my 412 needs a little attention to the brakes i think.

I need the following:

-Rear wheel cylinders
-Brake shoes
-left caliper
-Brake pads

So, the parts compatibility list says that rear shoes are the same as 1302/03 front (but, i assume the non-S 02 and 03 had front drums then?), so they should be easy to find.

The list does not have an entry for wheel cylinders, only wheel cylinder repair kits, which it says are the same again as a 02/03 front. So, are the cylinders the same? Or are they different just use the same rubbers?

Anyone know where i can get a caliper?

And, finally, brake pads. I remember either the Type III or 411 has the same brakes on the front as some Volvo on the rear (?), but what pads does a 412 use, and where can i get some?

Flexis are beetle items, master will need reconditioning, and ill make all the lines from CuNiFe. As far as i know the 412 variant has no proportioning valve, right?

[Editor]

I think GSF still sell the rear wheel cylinders for Type 3 and Type 4 - they're the same.

[shawn71]

Depending on the year of your car depends on the availability of a caliper.

411s and early 412s use the same/similar caliper to the late Type 3. Not sure of the exact cut off date but my 412 is a '72 and uses the same caliper and disc as the Porsche 914. This a deeper offset that you can measure on the disc which is IIRC about 60mm.

As Dave said rear wheel cylinders are availabe easy enough.

Rear shoes are often on e-bay and pads will depend on what calipers you have as the later ones are about 4-5mm thicker.

As for the master cylinder, Kieron (KPS70) has reported that Pastparts will recondition and resleeve them.

[kps70]

yep, PastParts put a stainless sleeve into my type 4 master cylinder and renewed the seals. Turned around in less than a fortnight. 108 quid all in including postage.
K

[adi #2]

If they are the same as a type III, then would the BMW caliper conversion work?

The problem is that on my car one of the calipers is missing, so i cant even rebuild it (obviously...since...you know...its not there).

How can i tell which calipers my car needs? Mine is made in dec 72, and is therefore a 73 model. Can anyone tell me if there is anything i can measure on the hubs/old caliper to identify what calipers it has?

Im surprised the calipers arnt shared with a superbeetle, T2/T3, or early water-cooled stuff, or something like that, as alot of other parts are.

Also, what about discs?

[shawn71]

You can measure the off set on the disc, if it is around the 60mm mark then it is the later one and requires the same disc and caliper configuration as the Porsche 914 so that it could use thicker pads. I had heard one story that VW were suffering from lots of warranty claims with the early set up as pads were wearing out far quicker than anticipated thus ruining the disc and cars not stopping.

The offset on the earlier disc is about 10-15mm less and is the same disc and caliper as the late Type 3.

But at a guess I would say you need the later set up due to the production date of your 412.

[411ron]

Im using Mercedes W123 rear disc pads in my calipers they are the same as early type 4 (thiner pads) and have worked fine for the last 3 years and it flys through the Mot.
You can get them from GSF about £15.00 if I remember.

Good luck
Ron

[s.unsworth]

Anyone stuck for Type 3 or 4 Brake Calipers ? I got my Late Type 3 ones ( so same as 411 ? ) exchange from Brakes International. Rochdale 01706 666999. Bolton 01204 385888 :- http://www.brakesint.co.uk or straight in to the excellent on line catalogue :- http://www.brakeparts.co.uk They are remanufactured by Budweg in Denmark using new Stainless Steel Pistons and are Guaranteed for 2 years ( I think ). The late ones `71 > are £ 48.32 each + VAT. Their Part Numbers are BCA0280 for L/H and BCA0281 for R/H. The Mintex Pads to fit were rediculously cheap ! The early Type 3 Calipers are £ 38.19 each + VAT. BCA0124 for L/H and BCA0125 for R/H. They also list some other numbers for 411 and 412.

They list the Repair Kits and Stainless Steel Pistons separately but the Exchange Calipers look like new so at those prices why bother ?

[s.unsworth]

There`s always BRAKE ENGINEERING. I was going to get my Calipers sent there for a rebuild but the exchange Budweg ones from Brakes International were much cheaper. Available off the shelf and with a 2 year warranty. Also I do not think Brake Engineering will deal direct with retail customers. you have to get a local brake factor to send them off to this lot to be rebuilt and wait for them to come back. Brakes Int I just took my old calipers and colleted the new ( remanufactured )ones.

BRAKE ENGINEERING ®
Redwither Road, Wrexham Industrial Estate, Wrexham, LL13 9RD

UK: (+44)1978 667800
Sales: 01978 667800
Accounts: 01978 667802
Purchasing: 01978 667803
Fax: 01978 667801

[BeeBabs]

Hope this may be of some use? I appreciate it's saying for the front.
http://www.status-vw.co.uk/shop/index.h ... lang=en-gb

[kps70]

I have BMW320i brake calipers on my 1971 411. Simple bolt on replacement and twice the braking area.
Here's the link with pictures
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=3802

[Editor]

Note that you need spacers and that kps70 needed to bleed the calipers off the wheel as the bleed valves are at the bottom. I wouldn't quite describe that as a simple bolt-on replacement. You'll feel even more annoyed if you need to bleed them from time to time (not something that should need doing regularly though).

[s.unsworth]

When I did the complete rebuild of my Late Type 3 Brakes, I shopped around for the best prices. The Front Calipers and Pads were cheapest from Brakes International. Front Discs from Status VW. Front Wheel Bearings, Hydraulic Hoses, Rear Drums, Shoes and Cylinders from VW Heritage. Sykes Picavant Hydraulic Brake Pipe Flaring Tool Set from ebay ( U.K. Tools ). Rolls of Kunifer and Copper Pipe and Nipples from local Unipart.

[adi #2]

Am i right in assuming that all this does not apply to me, since i have a late 412? So all the type III/BMW conversions etc wont work, and i need to find the correct caliper?

Or is it not as simple as that?

[s.unsworth]

Budweg Remanufatured 412 Calipers from brakes international are £51.30 + vat exchange £10 surcharge until they receive your old unit (s ). Could not be easier ! Contact details already supplied above L/H is BCA 0414. R/H BCA 0415

[shawn71]

Budweg Remanufatured 412 Calipers from brakes international are £51.30 + vat exchange £10 surcharge until they receive your old unit (s ). Could not be easier ! Contact details already supplied above L/H is BCA 0414. R/H BCA 0415

But I think adi#2 problem is that his N/S caliper is missing and he needs to clarify which of the two types of caliper he has fitted as the early ones are the same (pretty much) as the Type 3 whereas the later ones are the Porsche 914 version.

Having said that it sounds a good way to get some for 411 project, so thanks for the info.

[purplepeter]

Butting in for a mo,if i may...The car was complete when Dave & I looked at it,so 65deluxe must have all the bits that are missing,like engine hatch & brake caliper & anything else thats gone astray...give him a bell & ask him!

[adi #2]

I asked both 65 and Derek, and it seems neither of them know what happened to the caliper and engine lid. I guess they just sort of disappeared somehow, old cars have a tendency to do that with their parts once they change owners a few times, especially as a non-runner project.

Derek said he never had the 412 on the road, so maybe it never had a caliper in the first place, since he got it as a project?

I know Derek kept the AA badge rack thing from the front (not that i would have wanted that anyway).

As for the engine lid, i guess it just 'walked'?

[purplepeter]

I was fairly sure it was Dereks family car for a good 15yrs before he laid it up under the carport!
Delay rushing into the purchase of new calipers-I've just had a thought about where there might be a pair!(i've just rung him & left a message about them)
Go back & study the pics on the sale thread & you'll see Daves paw holding the lid open!

[adi #2]

Thanks very much Peter, please PM me if you locate them, it would come in very useful.

[kps70]

mmm, good point about the 412 and 411 being different - I forgot the gap from the mounting holes to the disc is different in the 411 and 412.