Headlight Relay

[Battle]

Ok so I've had this knackered relay in my notch for awhile as the replacement one i bought i couldn't get full beam to work, Then the old one failed me on the way home and i was forced to buy a new one from GSF the only problem is when i plug the new relay in a have main beam and nothing else and i didn't even get the key in the ignition! I'm puzzled how can my old one which doesn't even have a cover offer me a full set of working lights (all be it with a bit of messing) and a new one just bypasses everything

Any help would be great

[Battle]

Anyone?

[rustydubs]

try getting an original part, repro parts aint always up to scratch.

[Editor]

Are we talking about a 12v headlamp relay or something more exotic? You've put it in the same way round? I don't know if there's anything that stops it being plugged in backwards or sideways - but there should be.

GSF need to know if it's faulty. I would not expect them to supply dud parts. Does the bill show the cars it's meant for?

[Battle]

Sorry yes it is a 12v and it will only go in one way, I spoke to GSF and they let me try another one... same problem, Its really strange

Anyone have a spare that they know works? Its going in to have the carbs look at again this week so i will ask them to have a look at it buy I'm baffled

[bilbo]

when i plug the new relay in a have main beam and nothing else and i didn't even get the key in the ignition!

can i just check, are you saying that the moment you plug the relay in your full beam comes on without the key in the ignition or the headlight switch turned on?

it's shorting out. check the condition of your ignition and headlight wires, esp. full beam, to see if part of the casings are stripped and if they are touching - under the dash near the fuse box where it's usually spagetti junction

is it blowing fuses as well when you plug the relay in or turn the lights on?

[Battle]

Yeh When i plugged the 'new' one in i had full beam with no key, But with the 'old' one in this doesnt happen. The 'old' one no longer selects lights but if i move the arm i can get side, full and hi beam on, No fuses have blown I am stumped

Its in the shop on thurs so gonna get them to have a look maybe even try a relay out of a bug

Again thanks for the help folks

[Battle]

Ok Folks, So car was in the garage today (Manchester Air Cooled) and spoke to him about the relay, tried an old tin one out of a bug and bingo works fine so the GSF ones are pants and now im on the look out for an original VW Tin topped Relay.... Anyone got one?

[Editor]

Sadly there are one or two look-alike parts coming onto the market - there's been recent discussion on Type 3.org about brake-light switches - some don't work properly with the brake warning lights - we didn't have that system here, but it was standard in the USA and Canada I think.

Let GSF know - they need to pull the stock and check what's happened.

[Battle]

Always the way, Cheap s@*t flooding the market, I might have a lead on some original ones.

GSF didn't seem to care so there loss

[Wireless]

I realise it's an old thread, but is the interior light connected to the headlamp relay?

I ask this because on my Square the interior light would decide not to work for a few days at a time, and then work for several, and then not again. I checked fuses and nothing amiss, even changed all my door switches as I thought that might be the problem.

Anyway, this interior light fault kept coming and going.

Now the headlights won't go to full beam, still all the fuses are intact, I've removed and checked each one, and the interior light is not working altogether, so are they connected?

As I've never touched the electrics, except for replacing both door switches, which made no difference to the interior light fault, which came and went as it felt like it, I'm a bit confused as to how to solve this.

I know on a Beetle the wiring between headlights and interior light are connected, just the fault on that one involved the fuse blowing all the time, turned out the interior light was short circuited during a full resto.

However, as I say, I've not touched anything, and the fuses are fine.

[CLIFFORD8003]

Have you checked the relay which is behind the fusebox. i had the same problem and that was what it was, if you require a relay i should have one in the garage.

Cheers Cliff.

[shawn71]

The main beam relay in my 412 has a tendency to fill with water from a small leak somewhere above it. The relay would work fine for ages but then stop switching to main beam from dipped. I've changed the relay a few times now, along with the indicator flasher unit and never found where the leak was.
However when I looked at the windscreen frame on my 411 there appears to be a couple of factory holes either side in the bottom corners, one of which seems to sit above the fusebox. Apparently mine isn't the only Type 4 that leaks in this location.

[Editor]

The drain holes in my Fastback rear screen frame originally had a piece of tape put over them once dry after the primer dip. I removed them and got a leak into the rear boot after the repaint. Maybe that's what has happened to your 412 - it pays to leave that tape in place, or replace it with fresh!

I can't see why the interior light would be affected by the headlight relay, as it is on a permanently live circuit. However, so is the hazard flasher, so they may share some common connections on the fuse-box or nearby. It's unlikely to be an earthing problem, as the interior light earths through the door switches.

[CLIFFORD8003]

The relays on my car were full of water and i had to remove them and drain out the water, after that it was fine until it rained again!

Cheers Cliff.

[shawn71]

In desperation I drilled a small hole in one of the relays and it lasted a tad longer as the water drained through it...not ideal I know but it worked

[Wireless]

Seems I need to drill the self tappers out that hold my fuse box onto the dash, they are rusted solid, it may be been water from when the window seal used to leak that has caused this, although its been dry under there since late 2012 when the new rubbers went on from ISP West.

I'm not multi jointed like you guys, I can't get at the damn relay, ha.

[shawn71]

On my 412 Variant the fuse box is attached the removable plate (on the top edge of it) that goes behind the carpet in the passenger footwell. All I have to do is pull the door frame trim away to release the part of the carpet that folds along the door frame and then remove that piece of upright carpet. Once that's out of the way a couple of screws should make them selves known and once they are out the plate unhooks and moves allowing access to the rear of the fuse box which is where the relays are, as you know.

[Wireless]

I think we're getting confused here, I have a couple of 412LS Variants, but the fault is on my Type 3 Squareback.

While waiting for Clifford to return off holiday to post me the spare one I've bought off him, I've tried a GSF Headlamp Relay, no joy as it didn't work, and even investigated the interior lamp, which was fine.

Looking at the wiring diagram of the generic part offered as a headlamp relay for the Beetle, Type 2, and Type 3, from GSF, VW Heritage, and JK, it's a MEYLE Product 100 941 0006 1013, or DNI 0127, where as the original part is VW 411 941 583B Manufactured by SWF with part number R 200.958

The only difference appears to be printed on the circuit diagram on the side of the relay, the circuit seems to show a none standard Diode Symbol, that is reversed on the new product, so I suspect perhaps leads connected to 56a and 56b need to be swapped over for it to work.

Anybody tried this?

[Editor]

56a and 56b are just the main and dipped connections. The diode is intended to carry the surge current when the magnetic field in the relay coil collapses. The dip relay has two stable positions for the connections - on main and on dipped. When you operate the dip switch, it energises the relay for a moment and switches it from one contact to the other.

I don't think swapping the leads will do any good.

If you have a test meter, measure the resistance between 56 and 56a, and between 56 and 56b. One should be more or less zero (closed) and the other very high (open). If you can briefly energise the relay with 12V on terminal 30 and a quick touch of negative on S, the relay should click and change to the other state. Remove power and check the resistance between the two pairs of contacts as above - they should now be the other way.

I've had some electrical things come with a coating on terminals - it may be worth cleaning the pins with scotchbrite to make sure they will make good contact. It's very confusing, as you expect a new item to work!

[Wireless]

Ha, All that messing about, a mate had a spare 1972 Beetle Headlamp/Indicator Switch, tried that and the problem was solved, so fitted it, same component as the Type 2 Bus as well.

The least likely component to fail failed...BTW, you can fit a Beetle Wiper Switch/Washer Valve Control, but you need to swap a couple of wires over, since as soon as you fit a Beetle Wiper the wipers start moving on the windscreen...

Up side is I now have self-cancelling indicators on the Square...and a spare headlamp relay...ha

[Wireless]

Downside is I started looking at the 412, turns out the petrol pipe was clogged up AND had an air leak, luckily plugging the contents of the tank. Quick trip to Halfrauds and the petrol pipe was renewed and a new fuel filter moved outside the engine bay.

Car started after a few spins of the starter motor, so then started listing everything not working for the MoT, and guess what, the indicators aren't working...worse, someone has fitted a new fusebox and its a bodge job, so for the MoT I'll be trying to solve the fault but long term, I have a spare 412 and the fusebox out of that is good, so it will be moved into the runner. First things to sort are an Earth, the replacement of a corroded wire terminal, and if that doesn't fix it, swap over the flasher relay from the spare car.

Wish me luck.