Ignition Cutting Out

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s.unsworth
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Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 18th May 2024 - 4:34pm

Our 1966 Beetle Ignition has started randomly Cutting Out whilst driving. I think the only cause of this can be Worn Contacts in the Ignition Switch ?

It Cut Out on Friday. I tried to Indicate Left to show the car behind I was pulling over. No Indicators ! No Red Or Green Lights on the Speedometer. The two that come on when the Ignition is Turned On before Starting the Engine, and would also come on if it Stalled. One is Oil Pressure Warning Light. The other is Generator Warning Light.

All that says to me is Faulty Ignition Switch. Or could it be something else ? This is the early, up to 1966 Ignition Switch in the Dash. No Steering Lock.

Steve U

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broady_6
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by broady_6 » 18th May 2024 - 9:18pm

Yeah it sounds rather like the ignition is "switching off". Have you checked all the wiring connections on the back of the switch too.
The sultan of swing

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 18th May 2024 - 10:23pm

Yes. Took the Switch out of the Dash today. All Connections are tight. I would like to not have to change the Switch. I went to the trouble of getting all the Locks with one Matching Key. The old type Key with VW Cut Out in the Head. New Switch will come with a New and Different Key. It`s not like Steering Column Ignition Lock Switches where the Switch can be changed but retaining the same Lock and Key.

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 21st May 2024 - 9:14am

Before I Order a New Ignition Switch Can it be anything else ? All the Connections to the Switch are tight. I`m thinking it can not be a Faulty Coil, as that would not Turn the Ignition Off. Just make the Engine Cut Out leaving the Oil Pressure Warning and Generator Lights On, and the Indicators Working ?

Suppose what I need is an Old School Auto Electrician.

Steve U

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937carrera
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by 937carrera » 21st May 2024 - 8:06pm

I'm rusty on this stuff, but where are the switch contacts. Can you get to them to see if they are worn or dirty, maybe use some contact cleaner. The other though is that the physical part of the switch is not staying in position and is vibrating to the "off position"
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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broady_6
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by broady_6 » 21st May 2024 - 9:36pm

So other things to check. Battery terminals both tight? Earth strap ok and secure at both ends? Im not familiar with early wiring. But I know one some cars all power goes through the switch on others it doesnt. So is the supply to the switch dodgy at the other end of the wire?
The sultan of swing

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 23rd May 2024 - 9:28am

Not checked Battery connections etc. Just assumed it could only be the Ignition Switch itself. Don`t know if the Electrical part of Switch can be removed from the Mechanical part with the Key. That`s easily done on the later type with Steering Column Lock where the Switch is separate from the Lock.

I will be having a look when I can. No idea how I could Test the Switch when the Fault is intermittent. Wiggle the Key with Engine Running sounds favorite.

May be going up to Volksfling at Biggar on Saturday or Sunday to collect a Type 3 Windscreen from Rodd Grub, possibly find a replacement Ignition Switch there.

Steve U

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 23rd May 2024 - 11:07am

Just checked all that. With Engine Running tried wiggling Ignition Key, Battery Positive and Earth, Wires to Ignition Switch, Generator, Voltage Regulator. Kept on running fine. Do I buy an Ignition Switch then if it never Cuts Out again it must have been the Ignition Switch ? If it still Cuts Out then we are no further on.

Having thought about it - bypass the Ignition Switch with the Engine Running by bridging across the connections. Shouldn`t be difficult to work out. There`s only 3 connections on these early Ignition Switches !

Steve U

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937carrera
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by 937carrera » 23rd May 2024 - 1:02pm

The other possibility is connection onto the consensor & points

I remember doing a points change on a Commer van many moons ago, and it wouldn't start. Turns out that in the replacement I had managed to provide a short to earth, so no spark. Took me hours to find out what I had done
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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purplepeter
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by purplepeter » 24th May 2024 - 8:39am

Check the Positive connection to coil

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 24th May 2024 - 2:56pm

Will do. Loss of Connection there would of course Cut the Ignition out but would it also Cut the Supply to the Oil Pressure Warning Lamp, Generator Warning Lamp and Indicators ?

Steve U

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937carrera
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by 937carrera » 24th May 2024 - 5:24pm

Clarification needed:

When the car cuts out does the oil / generator lights come on or stay off ?
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 24th May 2024 - 7:26pm

May I refer the honourable Member to my initial Post :

Post by s.unsworth » Sat May 18, 2024 3:34 pm

Our 1966 Beetle Ignition has started randomly Cutting Out whilst driving. I think the only cause of this can be Worn Contacts in the Ignition Switch ?

It Cut Out on Friday. I tried to Indicate Left to show the car behind I was pulling over. No Indicators ! No Red Or Green Lights on the Speedometer. The two that come on when the Ignition is Turned On before Starting the Engine, and would also come on if it Stalled. One is Oil Pressure Warning Light. The other is Generator Warning Light.

All that says to me is Faulty Ignition Switch. Or could it be something else ? This is the early, up to 1966 Ignition Switch in the Dash. No Steering Lock.

Steve U

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937carrera
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by 937carrera » 24th May 2024 - 7:38pm

I read it, twice, which is why i asked for clarification. I could read it both ways :)
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

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purplepeter
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by purplepeter » 25th May 2024 - 10:20am

Are you on Facebook steve? look for the following names- Simon Kelley, Alex Noel, The German Junkies (Seb Swindells) - You can check their friends lists to make sure you've got the right person, & you'll find both me & Danny
Simon has early type 3 ign switches, alex has a business specialising in little goodies, & German junkies are NOS specialists, so hopefully between them you might find a way around a new switch to match your existing locks (I suspect you might be able to bugger a new switch sufficiently that it'll work on your old key!)
I'm likely to be seeing all of them at Stonor next week, so I'll speak to them on your behalf, but give them a message anyway, so at least you can feel that progress is being made.

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 25th May 2024 - 11:13am

I do know Seb of German Junkies. dave@dubkeys.com reckons I can swap my Ignition Lock on to a New Switch. There are loads of Aftermarket Replacements on ebay etc. I am thinking of buying one from Volkswagen Classic Parts in Germany though. I the meantime, or to prove it, I can put Piggy Back Connectors onto the 2 Terminals on the Ignition Switch and a bridging wire across them when the Engine is Running. There are only 3 Connections on these. The 3rd is the Start Position. If that Stops it Cutting Out then It must be the Switch. Only thing is I`ll have to Open the Bonnet and Remove that Connection to Stop the Engine !

Steve

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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 25th May 2024 - 11:33am

Just to clarify, although I thought I had been very specific, when the Ignition Cut Out the Generator and Oil Pressure Warning Lights did not come on. The Indicators did not work.

Steve U

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937carrera
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by 937carrera » 25th May 2024 - 5:56pm

s.unsworth wrote:
25th May 2024 - 11:33am
Just to clarify, although I thought I had been very specific, when the Ignition Cut Out the Generator and Oil Pressure Warning Lights did not come on. The Indicators did not work.

Steve U
In which case, the symptoms are just as though the ignition has been turned off. Or there's a poor connection from the battery positive / earth connection
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 1st June 2024 - 1:34pm

Having looked at a Wiring Diagram, Supply to Ignition Switch is from the Headlamp Switch, so there`s another possibility for loss of supply to the Ignition, either a Bad Connection, or in the Wiring. Also could it be an intermittently Faulty Condensor ? The Ignition Coil sort of Earths via the Condensor. Could the Ignition Circuit be broken that way giving the symptoms of the Ignition being Switched Off ? They do say aftermarket Condensors are rubbish these days !

Steve

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937carrera
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by 937carrera » 1st June 2024 - 2:21pm

A failing consensor would lead to a non running engine (no spark across the points), at which point the alternator . oil pressure lights would come on
David
1974 412LS Variant
1973 412LE 4 door Fastback / Saloon

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 1st June 2024 - 4:08pm

I`ve just put a New Condensor on this afternoon. Been for a short drive. No Cutting Out but it does not always do it anyway !

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broady_6
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by broady_6 » 2nd June 2024 - 8:35pm

Fingers crossed. I never change a condesner as part of routine these days. If its working it stays on the car, I always carry a couple of spares.
The sultan of swing

s.unsworth
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Re: Ignition Cutting Out

Post by s.unsworth » 3rd June 2024 - 5:09pm

Our friends in the USA say never change an Original Bosch Condensor. They never fail. The trouble is it became common routine practice to change Plugs, Points, and Condensor. So there are not many Original Bosch Condensors on Cars. Last ones I had were Bosch but not Original Made In Germany. They did not last long, so I`ve now bought some BERU to try. Next move will be REMAX Made in UK as sold by The Green Spark Plug Company.

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